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 Заголовок сообщения: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 18:36 
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Зарегистрирован: 05 июн 2014, 23:18
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Откуда: The Crown
Hello.

What makes that Belarus must be dependent from Russia?
Known matter is self-insufficiency of energy.
I know about another factors, but I would like to hear about them from you, Belarusians.
It might be helpful when building Isthmus.
Z pavahaj.

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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 19:02 
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Зарегистрирован: 31 авг 2010, 23:41
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First of all - lack of a strong national idea.

"Belarusians" are just a mutated version of bad/good "Russians". A title that was imposed by the Russian tsars with purpose. And it keeps Belarus down better that any economic reason. What do you rename them into (not just rename, but give a solid national idea)? "Litvins"? It's kinda too late, and a bit difficult. Yes, Lithuanians will grunge, but who cares about them. Anyway, not a small challenge.

When people's self-understanding is that they by their nature belong to the "Russian sphere of influence" it doesn't matter what the educated part of the society knows/feels.

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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 20:03 
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Зарегистрирован: 05 июн 2014, 23:18
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I think that Belarus doesn't need to rename to the new Lithuania.
In Poland we hear about grassroots movements in Belarus.
Intelligence and the opposition emphasis on the history of medieval "Belarus",
the history of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the glorious times of the Res Publica.
In contrast, the glorification of the history of Soviet Belarus by the authority of the state
is a bad thing for Belarus National Consciousness.
This brings you to one mystic soviet nation which runs in a straight line to the russification.
You have a great folk culture, great story, You are the heirs of the Republic and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
Your national objective should be striving towards Europe, independence, freedom.
To tell the truth, You ARE an Europe. The values ​​that fall down in the West, in you are still alive!
You just have to pass aware of this. You need a national revival. You need a leader.
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Every time I look at your flag I am overcome by pride. I feel this bond with you, brotherhood, unity.

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Make it happen.
Middleseas Patriots - Facebook.com


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 20:29 
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Зарегистрирован: 31 авг 2010, 23:41
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Problem is - for a "Belarusian" his history has started in 1918. Be it an adherent of BNR, or BSSR - doesn't matter. For them there was no Republic, no Commonwealth, no glorious battles, no union with the Polish sword in the fields of honor, no Magdeburg rights, no European heritage, nothing. Just a big empty ocean of water in place of the modern Belarus. Or just a black hole in a ground.

I know that sounds scary to Poland, and to some other nations around. Believe me, it sounds even scarier to the Belarusians. But truth is, without strong national idea this land has no future. It will become Russia sooner, or later. And "Belarus" just fails to provide one. It's no surprise. It was specifically created with this task - to keep this land down.

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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 20:46 
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Зарегистрирован: 31 авг 2010, 10:31
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I dont think so. Russia is dying. We have an opportunity to build a new country, without Russia.

We are not Russia. And we dont want to become russians.


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 21:55 
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Зарегистрирован: 31 авг 2010, 11:35
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Patriot писал(а):
Hello.

What makes that Belarus must be dependent from Russia?
Known matter is self-insufficiency of energy.
I know about another factors, but I would like to hear about them from you, Belarusians.
It might be helpful when building Isthmus.
Z pavahaj.

Economy and industry inherited from the USSR. It's pretty much the main factor.

1) Belarusian soviet economy was mostly based on industry. BSSR was called an "assembly line" of the Soviet Union. We were sitting on the top of USSR production chains (IT, computers production, machinery productions, chemical industry), without much of local resources or market, completely dependent on raw materials and parts import, energy import and external market to sell our goods. In addition, strategic decisions and marketing was in Moscow, we just specialized in technical/production operations.

When USSR collapsed, Belarus was cut off from old production chains and markets. In addition, our main products were quite complex and it is a challenge to keep them competitive on the global market. It's not like crude oil. Western markets were pretty much closed for these types of products we had.

2) Belarus was not ready for independence, there was no internal fight for it, we got it pretty much accidentally as a result of USSR collapse.

Therefore, local elite groups (government, bureaucracy, high-rank management, top of police, army and special services) remained the same as in the BSSR, and their natural response for this sudden disaster/opportunity was to preserve what they got, try to restore old order of things.

The only way to do this, was to restore old soviet production chains. And the only way to restore them was to reintegrate with Russia - which remained the main market and was always the source of most raw materials and energy import for our economy.

3) As long as Belarus still got something to milk from soviet production heritage - Belarus will continue doing it. All the rest stuff about national identity and so on - is secondary to this.

In the nutshell, Belarus choice was very simple: dump soviet production heritage and run to EU or milk it together with Russia. Our elites chose the later. Frankly, there was no choice at all for them.


Последний раз редактировалось usun 15 июн 2014, 22:14, всего редактировалось 3 раз(а).

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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 22:01 
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Зарегистрирован: 31 авг 2010, 11:35
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Lads, you are talking about history, symbols - it's nothing without actual economy base to support a claim for a separate country.
Let's bother about resources first, and then we'll invent any kind of mythology we can imagine to support the claim.

Do we need to keep near Russia for time being? I don't see any problem with it at all. I know, that comrade Woloh has a very different opinion on the matter :-)


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 23:02 
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Зарегистрирован: 31 авг 2010, 23:41
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usun писал(а):
Lads, you are talking about history, symbols - it's nothing without actual economy base to support a claim for a separate country.
Let's bother about resources first, and then we'll invent any kind of mythology we can imagine to support the claim.

Do we need to keep near Russia for time being? I don't see any problem with it at all. I know, that comrade Woloh has a very different opinion on the matter :-)

Yep, I do.

Economy is just tactics. Belarus has a problem with a strategy though.

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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: Belarus - What makes It's dependent from Russia?
Сообщение Рейтинг поста: [ ] Добавлено: 15 июн 2014, 23:49 
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Зарегистрирован: 05 июн 2014, 23:18
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I don't see any problems with economic cooperation with Russia.
But there is one condition. It must be cost-effective.
If it makes you from Russia and exert political pressures, is it profitable?
I guess you are dependent in the energy sector: electricity, gas, oil.
In Middleseas conception we have solution for these issues.
Electicity:
- Polish technology of GEOTHERMIC ENERGY (not to be confused with geothermal energy)
- three plants of this type will satisfy 100% the needs of the Polish economy
- so I assume that for the Belarusian economy enough two power plants of this type
- it's 100% renewable energy
- cheapest cost of energy production than all other plants
- does not produce any pollution
I can't say more of this technology.
Gas:
- Polish shale gas
- Azerbejdzan gas
- Russian gas
Oil:
- Fuels from coal liquefaction (polish patent; coal deposits in Poland are powerful)
- It gives full self-sufficiency

However, a condition that Poland could invested in Belarus is being in strong military alliance,
because we need ensuring stability during and after the investment.

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Middleseas. Międzymorze. Междуморье.
Make it happen.
Middleseas Patriots - Facebook.com


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